Posts
"I took out a Direct PLUS loan for my daughter’s education, based on my good credit. Now she is graduating with no work prospects. I can’t afford to pay these loans. It was intended that she would be able to, and that I wouldn't have to sell my house to cover the loans. What do I do now? "
The number of Parents who did not attend school, find themselves in default for student loans is growing. People like Jeff above, are finding out that trying to help their child get ahead, is now going to cost them mega bucks in an economy that is hurting both old and young people.
Folks getting ready to retire, find themselves being on the hook as either a signer or co-signer for a student loan which they themselves never used nor benefited from.
So not only are we seeing Fresh graduating students going into default, (due to lack of jobs), but now their parents are also feeling the wrath of the student loan scam.
When do we get our bail out?
Tuesday, February 7, 2012
Friday, January 27, 2012
Sally Mae at it again
WOW. The disdain of student loans is at it again, charging students a 50 or so dollar fee for ling for deferment. If the student cannot afford to pay it, they get put into default.
Once again, students are being put into default simply because they cannot complete the paperwork, or the paperwork is NOT being processed by the loan service company on time.
Why should these people have to pay a fee to get a deferment that will cost them more in the long run? Because of this new episode in the dismal performance of Sally Mae, a number of people are challenging the fee.
according to an article on the Huffington Post,Over 50,000 college grads across the country have joined a campaign on change.org urging student loan giant Sallie Mae to stop charging unemployed borrowers a $50 fee for forbearance on their loans, according to PRWeb.
The campaign was launched by Stef Gray, a recent college graduate who took out private loans through the company and was hit with the $50 fee when she requested a delay on the repayment of her loan due to unemployment. After graduating, Gray found herself without a fullt-time job and with no co-signers for her loan, since her parents had passed away. As a result she was forced to go into forbearance, or suspend the repayment of her loans.
Gray told PRWeb, “For Sallie Mae to tack on these extra fees just to pad their profits is to kick people like me when we’re already down. Charging a forbearance fee is wrong, and more than 50,000 people who agree are standing with me.”
The campaign is gaining strength as millions of student loan borrowers could be seeing the interest rates on their loans rise significantly unless Congress extends a rate reduction passed in 2007 and set to expire this July. While the current interest rate, based on the 2007 reduction, is 3.4 percent, the rate could double to 6.8 percent, adding more fuel to the fire of protests against student loans.
As of Friday afternoon, nearly 70,000 people had signed the petition.
AND because of the fact more and more people are going into default, I think its time for another blog dedicated to living in default, and how to handle it.. what do you folks think? DO we need such a blog?
Once again, students are being put into default simply because they cannot complete the paperwork, or the paperwork is NOT being processed by the loan service company on time.
Why should these people have to pay a fee to get a deferment that will cost them more in the long run? Because of this new episode in the dismal performance of Sally Mae, a number of people are challenging the fee.
according to an article on the Huffington Post,Over 50,000 college grads across the country have joined a campaign on change.org urging student loan giant Sallie Mae to stop charging unemployed borrowers a $50 fee for forbearance on their loans, according to PRWeb.
The campaign was launched by Stef Gray, a recent college graduate who took out private loans through the company and was hit with the $50 fee when she requested a delay on the repayment of her loan due to unemployment. After graduating, Gray found herself without a fullt-time job and with no co-signers for her loan, since her parents had passed away. As a result she was forced to go into forbearance, or suspend the repayment of her loans.
Gray told PRWeb, “For Sallie Mae to tack on these extra fees just to pad their profits is to kick people like me when we’re already down. Charging a forbearance fee is wrong, and more than 50,000 people who agree are standing with me.”
The campaign is gaining strength as millions of student loan borrowers could be seeing the interest rates on their loans rise significantly unless Congress extends a rate reduction passed in 2007 and set to expire this July. While the current interest rate, based on the 2007 reduction, is 3.4 percent, the rate could double to 6.8 percent, adding more fuel to the fire of protests against student loans.
As of Friday afternoon, nearly 70,000 people had signed the petition.
AND because of the fact more and more people are going into default, I think its time for another blog dedicated to living in default, and how to handle it.. what do you folks think? DO we need such a blog?
Monday, January 16, 2012
Defaulters are starting to speak out - in large numbers.
Student Loans and Bankruptcy - The Debate Continues, on Forbs Website. A number of comments are being posted because of the debate to restore bankruptcy protections on all student loans and because someone there bashed those of us in default.
One such comment is below:
" Tell ya what. If they return bankruptcy protections to me (I had them at one time for my loans, which are pre 1990), and allow me to discharge my loans, I will have the paperwork done in 25 min's. I have suffered over 30 years of being in default with no way to be able to obtain control over the loans I took out to attend what is now known as a predatory trade school of the 1980's. During this time I was forced into bankruptcy 2 times. Now I have nothing. In fact the stress of it, combined with our government selling out the manufacturing sector, nearly did me in, and I had to undergo open heart surgery to keep me alive. Bankruptcy would at least give me a chance to have some kind of retirement in 15 years or so. It won't be much, due to the fact that I was unable to earn top dollar being in default, but at least I wouldn't be on welfare. If not, I will continue as I am now, a disabled homeless veteran who just doesn't have what it takes anymore to try to get his loans under control. "
Well, this and other websites where people in default are being bashed and/or called deadbeats and what not, are starting to see a lot of postings from the folks in default.
Remember, According to the US Department of Education, out of the more than 3.6 million borrowers who entered repayment during fiscal year 2009, more than 320,000 defaulted on their loans. That's 1/3rd of a million people for ONE YEAR ALONE. If we presume that 250,000 default per year, since 1980 that means that 7,750,000 people are now in default.
That is a HECK of a lot of people, and the numbers are GROWING with this dismal economy. Will we get relief? I think so, and probably within the next 2 years. People are just fed up with government bailing out wall street, the big 3 auto makers and then helping the banksters steal everyone's homes. Now the students want some kind of relief and they are very vocal demanding it.
So when someone bashes those who are in default, people are finally starting to respond, because the effects of being in default are becoming clear.
So if you ever hear someone bash a defaulter, give 'em hell.
One such comment is below:
" Tell ya what. If they return bankruptcy protections to me (I had them at one time for my loans, which are pre 1990), and allow me to discharge my loans, I will have the paperwork done in 25 min's. I have suffered over 30 years of being in default with no way to be able to obtain control over the loans I took out to attend what is now known as a predatory trade school of the 1980's. During this time I was forced into bankruptcy 2 times. Now I have nothing. In fact the stress of it, combined with our government selling out the manufacturing sector, nearly did me in, and I had to undergo open heart surgery to keep me alive. Bankruptcy would at least give me a chance to have some kind of retirement in 15 years or so. It won't be much, due to the fact that I was unable to earn top dollar being in default, but at least I wouldn't be on welfare. If not, I will continue as I am now, a disabled homeless veteran who just doesn't have what it takes anymore to try to get his loans under control. "
Well, this and other websites where people in default are being bashed and/or called deadbeats and what not, are starting to see a lot of postings from the folks in default.
Remember, According to the US Department of Education, out of the more than 3.6 million borrowers who entered repayment during fiscal year 2009, more than 320,000 defaulted on their loans. That's 1/3rd of a million people for ONE YEAR ALONE. If we presume that 250,000 default per year, since 1980 that means that 7,750,000 people are now in default.
That is a HECK of a lot of people, and the numbers are GROWING with this dismal economy. Will we get relief? I think so, and probably within the next 2 years. People are just fed up with government bailing out wall street, the big 3 auto makers and then helping the banksters steal everyone's homes. Now the students want some kind of relief and they are very vocal demanding it.
So when someone bashes those who are in default, people are finally starting to respond, because the effects of being in default are becoming clear.
So if you ever hear someone bash a defaulter, give 'em hell.
Tuesday, January 10, 2012
Student Loan Defaulters, Scourage of Society?!
Vince Crew Writes that student loan defaulters are the scourage of society.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11370091/1/student-loan-defaulter-scourge-of-society.html#addComments
He claims we WANT to be in default and that we are just trying to get something for free, and that its part of the entitlement mentality. Well here are some of the comments left by just a few visitors to this idiots rant.
Comment by Mac Wildstar:
Well, while this sucker (the writer of the article) feels guilty about not paying their loans, I do not. I was CHEATED by the trade school I went to in 1987. Congress knew this, and yet still took away my bankruptcy protections, which I had at the time. I am willing to pay the principal, but not the endless interest and penalties, for being cheated.
Congress knew via the hearings it held from 1990 to 1992, which resulted in the first reforms being imposed on the industry. Senator Ted Kennedy himself is quoted saying that "he was worried about the students who were given worthless educations and left with bills they could not pay". Yet congress did nothing.
No, Mr.Writer of this article, This is not about us refusing to pay our bills, it is about us refusing to be cheated by them AND the government. It is about us demanding equal consumer protections, the same as we would get if we bought a lemon car, or a bad bank loan or any other kind of thing.
We have suffered a LIFETIME of this crap. Now if government can bail out wallstreet and the big 3, they can help us too. Don't forget, some of these so called deadbeat defaulters are people who are Veterans, people who work every day but barly make it, and people who would love to get these loans paid off, if they could. But it is impossible when congress takes away your rights, which is what they have done.
Comment by OPUSTHEDOG
How I love these outraged, "better than thou" moralists claiming the high ground on the basis of "you made a contract, now honor it." Or, "you gave your word, to renege now is unacceptable." Tell me Vince, how is this any different than multi-billion dollar AMR filing bankruptcy to "break their contracts" (their words). They gave their word to their workers, their contractors, their vendors, and their customers. Or just about every other airline doing the same? GM and Chrysler? They gave their word, too. We all know how that worked out. How is that even remotely "acceptable."
I also find it interesting that various columnist in the past have written pieces extolling the virtues of companies walking away from their contracts, most recently the AMR move. Yet these same publications give over space to mindless writers like Vince to attack the individual for taking the same action. What doublespeak!
And they wonder how groups like OWS are formed.
Comment by Andrew:
Student loan defaulters are "Scourge[s] of society? That's rich, coming from a boomer. You conveniently ignore the fact that your generation paid significantly less for your educations, even adjusted for inflation. Not to mention the fact that your generation completely failed to for see peak oil and sold out America's manufacturing sector to the lowest bidder. Now I guess it's Gen Y that will pick up the tab, via SLABS sold to the Chinese. You're welcome, a**hole.
Ed note: I am Glad to see people finally speaking up and bashing those idiots who think we WANT to be in default, that we are refusing to pay our bills and that we just want a hand out.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11370091/1/student-loan-defaulter-scourge-of-society.html#addComments
He claims we WANT to be in default and that we are just trying to get something for free, and that its part of the entitlement mentality. Well here are some of the comments left by just a few visitors to this idiots rant.
Comment by Mac Wildstar:
Well, while this sucker (the writer of the article) feels guilty about not paying their loans, I do not. I was CHEATED by the trade school I went to in 1987. Congress knew this, and yet still took away my bankruptcy protections, which I had at the time. I am willing to pay the principal, but not the endless interest and penalties, for being cheated.
Congress knew via the hearings it held from 1990 to 1992, which resulted in the first reforms being imposed on the industry. Senator Ted Kennedy himself is quoted saying that "he was worried about the students who were given worthless educations and left with bills they could not pay". Yet congress did nothing.
No, Mr.Writer of this article, This is not about us refusing to pay our bills, it is about us refusing to be cheated by them AND the government. It is about us demanding equal consumer protections, the same as we would get if we bought a lemon car, or a bad bank loan or any other kind of thing.
We have suffered a LIFETIME of this crap. Now if government can bail out wallstreet and the big 3, they can help us too. Don't forget, some of these so called deadbeat defaulters are people who are Veterans, people who work every day but barly make it, and people who would love to get these loans paid off, if they could. But it is impossible when congress takes away your rights, which is what they have done.
Comment by OPUSTHEDOG
How I love these outraged, "better than thou" moralists claiming the high ground on the basis of "you made a contract, now honor it." Or, "you gave your word, to renege now is unacceptable." Tell me Vince, how is this any different than multi-billion dollar AMR filing bankruptcy to "break their contracts" (their words). They gave their word to their workers, their contractors, their vendors, and their customers. Or just about every other airline doing the same? GM and Chrysler? They gave their word, too. We all know how that worked out. How is that even remotely "acceptable."
I also find it interesting that various columnist in the past have written pieces extolling the virtues of companies walking away from their contracts, most recently the AMR move. Yet these same publications give over space to mindless writers like Vince to attack the individual for taking the same action. What doublespeak!
And they wonder how groups like OWS are formed.
Comment by Andrew:
Student loan defaulters are "Scourge[s] of society? That's rich, coming from a boomer. You conveniently ignore the fact that your generation paid significantly less for your educations, even adjusted for inflation. Not to mention the fact that your generation completely failed to for see peak oil and sold out America's manufacturing sector to the lowest bidder. Now I guess it's Gen Y that will pick up the tab, via SLABS sold to the Chinese. You're welcome, a**hole.
Ed note: I am Glad to see people finally speaking up and bashing those idiots who think we WANT to be in default, that we are refusing to pay our bills and that we just want a hand out.
Thursday, December 22, 2011
Student Loan Reform > Lets get real about this.
Ok folks. Enough of the pabulum puking from the politicians. It is time to get real and get dead serious about reforming the student loan fiasco in America.
Look at what is being talked about and what is not. They talk about how to PROVIDE the loans. Not one bit is being discussed about SERVICING the loans, or helping people in Default, and THAT is where the real reforms need to be, along with one other major reform.
First, the for profit trade schools approval to participate in Federal student loans has to be removed PERMANENTLY. We have 30 years of evidence that this part of the system has FAILED. It is a broken horse. Time to get rid of it and move on.
Second, we need to seriously look at colleges and the way they raise their rates. An independent oversight committee should be appointed, and its job should be to rate each college and university that particulates in federal student loans, as to their cost effectiveness and if their tuition increases are justifiable or not.
Third we need some serious oversight and control of the 3rd party service companies. Stop paying 3rd party parasites (collections agencies) billions of dollars to collect millions. Instead, make their pay based on what they actually collect, not what they are supposed to collect. Better yet, stop using them altogether.
Forth, overhaul the "default" system. Find ways to help people pay off the defaulted loans, and restore their credit histories, instead of giving the department of education more collections powers so that they rival those of the IRS.
Fifth, reform the way payments made by defaulters are applied to a loan.
Sixth, allow contracts to be re-opened, and re-negotiated.
Seventh and most important - Restore ALL consumer protections to student loans.
Anything less than this, is just more pabulum puking from the glorified morons in Washington DC.
Look at what is being talked about and what is not. They talk about how to PROVIDE the loans. Not one bit is being discussed about SERVICING the loans, or helping people in Default, and THAT is where the real reforms need to be, along with one other major reform.
First, the for profit trade schools approval to participate in Federal student loans has to be removed PERMANENTLY. We have 30 years of evidence that this part of the system has FAILED. It is a broken horse. Time to get rid of it and move on.
Second, we need to seriously look at colleges and the way they raise their rates. An independent oversight committee should be appointed, and its job should be to rate each college and university that particulates in federal student loans, as to their cost effectiveness and if their tuition increases are justifiable or not.
Third we need some serious oversight and control of the 3rd party service companies. Stop paying 3rd party parasites (collections agencies) billions of dollars to collect millions. Instead, make their pay based on what they actually collect, not what they are supposed to collect. Better yet, stop using them altogether.
Forth, overhaul the "default" system. Find ways to help people pay off the defaulted loans, and restore their credit histories, instead of giving the department of education more collections powers so that they rival those of the IRS.
Fifth, reform the way payments made by defaulters are applied to a loan.
Sixth, allow contracts to be re-opened, and re-negotiated.
Seventh and most important - Restore ALL consumer protections to student loans.
Anything less than this, is just more pabulum puking from the glorified morons in Washington DC.
Friday, November 4, 2011
Student Loan bailout? Depends on how you look at it.
There is a lot of talk in the mainstream media, using catch phrases like "Student loan bail out" and "student loan bubble" and "high default rates. Pitooie! Horse Hockey, BULLSH*T!
There are those who are calling for some relief for students who are having trouble paying back their student loans. And the negativity from the peanut gallery is mind boggling, unless you understand that the student loan scam is really about making money, not helping students get an education.
Let us get real. I for one am tired of reading commentary from so called highly educated people with "good" college degrees, that still do not have a clue what it means to be in default. Nor that have any understanding of what default means, or how people get there.
All I hear from these highly educated idiots and morons is "we paid ours, now you have to pay yours", and "you signed on the dotted line", type comments.
Time for a reality check. Many people have documented "the student loan scam" as it is now called. People like Alan Collinge, founder of "Student loan Justice" has paper stacked 20 feet high of horror stories on how people were PUT into default by their loan processors. People like Mac Wildstar of the "victims of predatory trade schools" blog, has documented cases of wrong doing by service providers who have put people into default when they should not be.
Then there is life itself, which can cause a person to go into default. Jack writes to me that 3 days after he graduated from Penn State, a deer ran out in front of him and caused him to have a bad wreck which left him paralyzed in a wheel chair, unable to work. Now they take 15 percent of his disability payment and for the last 10 years, not one penny has gone to paying off his principal - yet he has already paid twice what he originally borrowed.
Then there are people like John who got screwed by the Predatory trade schools which lead to the 1992 reforms. John was victimized by the schools, AND by congress who kept changing the bankruptcy wait times. John's bankruptcy protection was removed permanently from him, in 1999, along with everyone else for that matter.
Also, it is well documented in congressional records, that one particular (cannot remember the name) loan servicer that went out of business, had a warehouse full of unopened mail. Mail which later was found out to have had numerous requests for deferments, and consolidations. These were never processed on time and the people put into default for no reason of their own doing.
And the congress has know about this since 1990. But what has it done? NOTHING to help the defaulted students. Instead it empowered itself even more so, than any other business.
We are now documenting people who have the 15 percent garnishments on their pay checks, disability checks, social security checks, and are now showing that over half, are paying NOTHING on their principal. About 40 percent of these have paid out 2 or 3 times what their original loan was. Yet their payment gets eaten up by huge collection fees, service fees, and interest. - and the congress knows this.
These people who are in default have a difficult time enough finding a job, but when employers also check credit histories and see student loan defaults, many former students find themselves discriminated against, and unable to obtain the job that would allow them to try to rehabilitate their loans and start paying them off. - A catch 22 situation because people in default are considered to be as bad as deadbeat parents.
As a result these people struggle from paycheck to paycheck and have no hope of being able to save for retirement because government comes in and takes everything in their bank accounts, and social security payments will be diminished even more so when they finally are able to get them.
These people have NOTHING to look forward to, because government created this situation. When government removed all consumer protections, it allowed this kind of thing to happen. As member of congress who were involved in the 1992 reforms stated, "Better oversight is needed". Well, here we are in 2011 and better oversight is STILL needed.
If Helping these people is a bail out, then I am all for it.
The people who are against such a bail out, are those parasites who are making a living off of other peoples misery.
There are those who are calling for some relief for students who are having trouble paying back their student loans. And the negativity from the peanut gallery is mind boggling, unless you understand that the student loan scam is really about making money, not helping students get an education.
Let us get real. I for one am tired of reading commentary from so called highly educated people with "good" college degrees, that still do not have a clue what it means to be in default. Nor that have any understanding of what default means, or how people get there.
All I hear from these highly educated idiots and morons is "we paid ours, now you have to pay yours", and "you signed on the dotted line", type comments.
Time for a reality check. Many people have documented "the student loan scam" as it is now called. People like Alan Collinge, founder of "Student loan Justice" has paper stacked 20 feet high of horror stories on how people were PUT into default by their loan processors. People like Mac Wildstar of the "victims of predatory trade schools" blog, has documented cases of wrong doing by service providers who have put people into default when they should not be.
Then there is life itself, which can cause a person to go into default. Jack writes to me that 3 days after he graduated from Penn State, a deer ran out in front of him and caused him to have a bad wreck which left him paralyzed in a wheel chair, unable to work. Now they take 15 percent of his disability payment and for the last 10 years, not one penny has gone to paying off his principal - yet he has already paid twice what he originally borrowed.
Then there are people like John who got screwed by the Predatory trade schools which lead to the 1992 reforms. John was victimized by the schools, AND by congress who kept changing the bankruptcy wait times. John's bankruptcy protection was removed permanently from him, in 1999, along with everyone else for that matter.
Also, it is well documented in congressional records, that one particular (cannot remember the name) loan servicer that went out of business, had a warehouse full of unopened mail. Mail which later was found out to have had numerous requests for deferments, and consolidations. These were never processed on time and the people put into default for no reason of their own doing.
And the congress has know about this since 1990. But what has it done? NOTHING to help the defaulted students. Instead it empowered itself even more so, than any other business.
We are now documenting people who have the 15 percent garnishments on their pay checks, disability checks, social security checks, and are now showing that over half, are paying NOTHING on their principal. About 40 percent of these have paid out 2 or 3 times what their original loan was. Yet their payment gets eaten up by huge collection fees, service fees, and interest. - and the congress knows this.
These people who are in default have a difficult time enough finding a job, but when employers also check credit histories and see student loan defaults, many former students find themselves discriminated against, and unable to obtain the job that would allow them to try to rehabilitate their loans and start paying them off. - A catch 22 situation because people in default are considered to be as bad as deadbeat parents.
As a result these people struggle from paycheck to paycheck and have no hope of being able to save for retirement because government comes in and takes everything in their bank accounts, and social security payments will be diminished even more so when they finally are able to get them.
These people have NOTHING to look forward to, because government created this situation. When government removed all consumer protections, it allowed this kind of thing to happen. As member of congress who were involved in the 1992 reforms stated, "Better oversight is needed". Well, here we are in 2011 and better oversight is STILL needed.
If Helping these people is a bail out, then I am all for it.
The people who are against such a bail out, are those parasites who are making a living off of other peoples misery.
Sunday, October 23, 2011
School closed, Now what?!
Brandie writes:
I am a student loan sufferer who is trying to get some info. A college professor of mine was telling me that if the school you went to has.permanently closed its doors with no intention of relocating then we are not responsible for the loan, and we can have it removed from our credit history. Is this true and how do I find out for sure if the school I went to is out of business for good?
Blog Writer answers:
IF you know where the school was located, you can obtain info about it from the local chamber of commerce. Or, you can try the government record office for that area. It all depends on where the records are kept, and who actually owns the school and where they were headquartered at. Then you can find out if they are out of business for good. Also check with the Better Business Bureau.
As for loan dismissal, to the best of my knowledge, ONLY if you are attending the school at the time it closes its doors, and goes out of business, can you file in court to have your loans dismissed. The courts may dismiss them all, or parts of them, leaving you with some to pay back.
But just because A school goes out of business say some 5 years after you left, does not mean that you can get your loans dismissed because they went out of business.
If you can show you were attending a school during a state or federal investigation of the school, which resulted in its eventually being shut down, then I would think you would be able to petition the courts to have your loans dismissed.
I am not a legal expert, so my advise to you is try to find a good Lawyer who specializes in higher education cases. Yes, I know they are rare, because there is no money in such cases; and most attorneys need to go where the money is to pay off their student loans or else they will find themselves in the same situation we are in!
Kind of ironic, isn't it?
I am a student loan sufferer who is trying to get some info. A college professor of mine was telling me that if the school you went to has.permanently closed its doors with no intention of relocating then we are not responsible for the loan, and we can have it removed from our credit history. Is this true and how do I find out for sure if the school I went to is out of business for good?
Blog Writer answers:
IF you know where the school was located, you can obtain info about it from the local chamber of commerce. Or, you can try the government record office for that area. It all depends on where the records are kept, and who actually owns the school and where they were headquartered at. Then you can find out if they are out of business for good. Also check with the Better Business Bureau.
As for loan dismissal, to the best of my knowledge, ONLY if you are attending the school at the time it closes its doors, and goes out of business, can you file in court to have your loans dismissed. The courts may dismiss them all, or parts of them, leaving you with some to pay back.
But just because A school goes out of business say some 5 years after you left, does not mean that you can get your loans dismissed because they went out of business.
If you can show you were attending a school during a state or federal investigation of the school, which resulted in its eventually being shut down, then I would think you would be able to petition the courts to have your loans dismissed.
I am not a legal expert, so my advise to you is try to find a good Lawyer who specializes in higher education cases. Yes, I know they are rare, because there is no money in such cases; and most attorneys need to go where the money is to pay off their student loans or else they will find themselves in the same situation we are in!
Kind of ironic, isn't it?
Thursday, October 20, 2011
Student loan scam
The picture cutoff is due to the way blogger posts the picture. For a complete view of it, go here.
Via: HealthcareAdministration.com
Blog Ed's note:
Amazing we find this info at a HEALTHCARE website! But they did a great job.
This clearly explains how the student loan system is HARMING America, instead of making us better.
Higher education may be a WANT of many people, but the truth is, the mentality of "higher education at any cost", is costing us too many wasted lifetimes of people being in perpetual debt.
And the truth is GOVERNMENT has become one of the Predators.
Via: HealthcareAdministration.com
Blog Ed's note:
Amazing we find this info at a HEALTHCARE website! But they did a great job.
This clearly explains how the student loan system is HARMING America, instead of making us better.
Higher education may be a WANT of many people, but the truth is, the mentality of "higher education at any cost", is costing us too many wasted lifetimes of people being in perpetual debt.
And the truth is GOVERNMENT has become one of the Predators.
Saturday, October 15, 2011
30 year defaulted student loans - something to consider
Lets talk about the pre 1992 reform student loans that are in default. The avarage loan for college, for a 2 year trade school back then was about 12 thousand dollars. Today due to default that amount is closer to 50k today. That means that over 2/3rds of the amount claimed owed, was created out of nothing but time.
15k borrowed, 9k in fees and penalties, and 22k in interest. Fees and interest amount to about 31k, just over doubled what was borrowed.
Now lets look at the schools today and the problems that are happening. Remember, back then in the pre-1992 reform era, we did not have any oversight imposed on the schools or the student loan providers or service companies. Nor did we have the internet. We did have bankruptcy protections, but as we all know, they were taken away from students for no real reasonable reason.
Today, we see the same things being claimed, that the students back then did. Schools recruitment practices, lying about job placement - which is a major recruitment tool, and lack of proper training so a person can go get that job after school.
BUT, unlike back then, today we have the internet and people who are more informed. And they are going after the schools for various reasons. Over 100 cases in the last decade alone, some in the millions of dollars range.
Back to the pre 1992 students. What recourse do they have now? Bankruptcy protections were taken away from them. Many of the schools went out of business, or were sold to another company. How can you sue a school that no longer exists?
And what of the governments roll in all of this? Has it changed much?I don't think it has. It is still encouraging people to go to school, to take out loans and to go into debt - debt they cannot get out of. The same government that took away standard consumer protections is pursuing those students who have defaulted, most of whom would not be in default by their own choice.
A significant number of students of the pre-1992 reform era, were PUT into default by their service companies, because the companies did not process forms and requests for deferment on a timely basis. One company that went bankrupt, had a warehouse full of boxes of unopened mail, some of which was request for deferments. Those students who filed timely request, were qualified for deferment, were put into default because the service company did not process their paperwork. This is in the congressional record as part of the 1990-1992 congressional investigation into the student loan industry that lead to the 1992 reforms. Yet these student have never been offered relief of any kind. They were victimized by the government itself.
Then there is this aittude people have that I just do not undersand. They have this idea of "Something for nothing", when it comes to education. They say if you buy a lemon car, you can return the car. But how do you return an education? Well, if the education was worthless to begin with, why should you have to pay for it, is my question response to that. They will claim the student had a duty to know that basket weaving 101 would not get them a job that pays 50k, yet when recruiting for the school, the school told students they could and with job placement, they could be working within 3 weeks after graduation.
The government claims the promises made by the schools and student loans contracts are separate issues. I disagree. Information the school puts out about its reputation and promises made by the school about job placement are what cause the students to apply for student loans.
This is a con artist game. The school wants the profits from the student loans. To get them they must have students. So they say and tell anything to get a student to apply to the school. The schools target low income people so that they can maximize student loans profits.
Only now is congress finally accepting the fact that promises made by schools and information they put out to students about the schools success rates, and job placement rates, are a key factor in the number of future defaults.
Which school would you rather go to and have hanging on your wall? A degree from an ivy league school, or the local public college? I bet you want to go to Harvard, not the local community college. But the costs involved, do play a major factor in determining who can and will go to the better schools. The point is, the students listen to claims made by the trade schools, and choose one to go to, knowing they will need student loans to get thru it. Schools who have a good reputation and have a proven track record, end up with few defaults. Those who do not, end up with a lot of defaults. And historically the For profit trade schools have the highest default rates.
And this was proven in the 1992 Reforms when congress determined that 8 out of 10 of the defaulted loans in 1989 were from students who went to a For Profit trade school.
So why hasn't congress helped us? It is something to consider.
15k borrowed, 9k in fees and penalties, and 22k in interest. Fees and interest amount to about 31k, just over doubled what was borrowed.
Now lets look at the schools today and the problems that are happening. Remember, back then in the pre-1992 reform era, we did not have any oversight imposed on the schools or the student loan providers or service companies. Nor did we have the internet. We did have bankruptcy protections, but as we all know, they were taken away from students for no real reasonable reason.
Today, we see the same things being claimed, that the students back then did. Schools recruitment practices, lying about job placement - which is a major recruitment tool, and lack of proper training so a person can go get that job after school.
BUT, unlike back then, today we have the internet and people who are more informed. And they are going after the schools for various reasons. Over 100 cases in the last decade alone, some in the millions of dollars range.
Back to the pre 1992 students. What recourse do they have now? Bankruptcy protections were taken away from them. Many of the schools went out of business, or were sold to another company. How can you sue a school that no longer exists?
And what of the governments roll in all of this? Has it changed much?I don't think it has. It is still encouraging people to go to school, to take out loans and to go into debt - debt they cannot get out of. The same government that took away standard consumer protections is pursuing those students who have defaulted, most of whom would not be in default by their own choice.
A significant number of students of the pre-1992 reform era, were PUT into default by their service companies, because the companies did not process forms and requests for deferment on a timely basis. One company that went bankrupt, had a warehouse full of boxes of unopened mail, some of which was request for deferments. Those students who filed timely request, were qualified for deferment, were put into default because the service company did not process their paperwork. This is in the congressional record as part of the 1990-1992 congressional investigation into the student loan industry that lead to the 1992 reforms. Yet these student have never been offered relief of any kind. They were victimized by the government itself.
Then there is this aittude people have that I just do not undersand. They have this idea of "Something for nothing", when it comes to education. They say if you buy a lemon car, you can return the car. But how do you return an education? Well, if the education was worthless to begin with, why should you have to pay for it, is my question response to that. They will claim the student had a duty to know that basket weaving 101 would not get them a job that pays 50k, yet when recruiting for the school, the school told students they could and with job placement, they could be working within 3 weeks after graduation.
The government claims the promises made by the schools and student loans contracts are separate issues. I disagree. Information the school puts out about its reputation and promises made by the school about job placement are what cause the students to apply for student loans.
This is a con artist game. The school wants the profits from the student loans. To get them they must have students. So they say and tell anything to get a student to apply to the school. The schools target low income people so that they can maximize student loans profits.
Only now is congress finally accepting the fact that promises made by schools and information they put out to students about the schools success rates, and job placement rates, are a key factor in the number of future defaults.
Which school would you rather go to and have hanging on your wall? A degree from an ivy league school, or the local public college? I bet you want to go to Harvard, not the local community college. But the costs involved, do play a major factor in determining who can and will go to the better schools. The point is, the students listen to claims made by the trade schools, and choose one to go to, knowing they will need student loans to get thru it. Schools who have a good reputation and have a proven track record, end up with few defaults. Those who do not, end up with a lot of defaults. And historically the For profit trade schools have the highest default rates.
And this was proven in the 1992 Reforms when congress determined that 8 out of 10 of the defaulted loans in 1989 were from students who went to a For Profit trade school.
So why hasn't congress helped us? It is something to consider.
Friday, October 14, 2011
Parasites love student loans
I find it amazing that of the last 14 comments left for this blog, only 1 did not contain some kind of link to another page whose theme was about servicing student loans in one form or another. Either consolidation, servicing, helping rehabilitate loans, something that requires the student to pay them a FEE.
And I really enjoy these 3rd party collections parasites that tell me that they consolidated my loans. I ask them for a copy of the contract with my signature allowing it to happen. IF not, I accuse them of mail fraud, constructive fraud, and contract fraud. It shuts them up every time. I also love it when they tell me they have a contract with the department of Education. So I tell them to talk with their business partner not me. And that since I have no contract with them, and since I do not wish to contract with them, that they should never contact me again. You know, the same stuff I have been reporting that I do to all of them.
Then I really like the commentary on various websites reporting news today about the default rates starting to climb into the double digits, people calling for loan reform, or loan forgiveness, or people wanting to restore bankruptcy protections. The vultures just wait for someone to admit they are in default, or want to restore bankruptcy, or get their loan forgiven, then they pounce.
Yes these highly educated idiots, some with masters degrees still do not comprehend that just because a person is in default, does not mean they are deadbeats, as many of the vultures believe. So they write in comments like "I had to pay mine, you have to pay yours", and they love writing attacks on the person who is in default.
Amazing that of the student loan related yahoo groups, only 3 are not commercialized groups. That is all the others are being sponsored by a commercial bank or one of their employees who is looking to make a commission.
Even the congress, as slow as it is, still amazes me. Look at the latest push by wall street to keep student loans going. They are offering a plan to help stabilize the student loan industry, with a savings cost, they claim. But when you really look at it, you find it increases the costs and taxpayers get stuck with the bills, with wall street getting a bigger cut of the action.
And congress itself keeps saying it has a problem with defaulted student loans. Well, by the nations charter, (the Constitution) the US congress is NOT supposed to enter into commerce to compete with other commercial entities, and when it does, it is supposed to take the same risks as the others do. Yet this is not the case in reality.
The US congress has used its law making powers to give itself advantages over every other commercial business, at the cost of taxpayers and students, when it comes to the student loan industry. The result is the congress has created a second class of citizens, who are unequal in terms of financial standing. First congress is NOT taking the same risks as other commercial entities, and second, it has created a class of perpetual in debt people who have no hope of ever getting out of debt. And Third, the US congress has in effect, committed fraud with the way it has handled student loans and the industry.
Look at the industry history. Since 1970 congress has played with various laws which are of concern to students and people who get student loans. In 1992, the US congress imposed the very first "student loan reform" laws, due to the industry experiencing high default rates of nearly 1 in 4, (23 percent). Congress blamed the US department of education for failing to impose oversight on the schools at that time. Identified as a key reason for the high default rates, for profit schools (trade schools) finally had some level of oversight imposed on them. But it was too little too late.
Now with a bad economy, people are looking at not only the high default rates for the for profit (predatory trade schools) schools, but also at the higher cost of education in general.
In an article on kansaswatchdog.com, Mentions an article by the Center for College Affordability and Productivity (CCAP). The article called its findings the, “single most scandalous statistic in higher education” and said it, “Reveals many current problems and ones that will grow enormously as policymakers mindlessly push enrollment expansion amidst what must become greater public-sector resource limits.”
So there you go.. we don't all need to be ging to college after all.
And I really enjoy these 3rd party collections parasites that tell me that they consolidated my loans. I ask them for a copy of the contract with my signature allowing it to happen. IF not, I accuse them of mail fraud, constructive fraud, and contract fraud. It shuts them up every time. I also love it when they tell me they have a contract with the department of Education. So I tell them to talk with their business partner not me. And that since I have no contract with them, and since I do not wish to contract with them, that they should never contact me again. You know, the same stuff I have been reporting that I do to all of them.
Then I really like the commentary on various websites reporting news today about the default rates starting to climb into the double digits, people calling for loan reform, or loan forgiveness, or people wanting to restore bankruptcy protections. The vultures just wait for someone to admit they are in default, or want to restore bankruptcy, or get their loan forgiven, then they pounce.
Yes these highly educated idiots, some with masters degrees still do not comprehend that just because a person is in default, does not mean they are deadbeats, as many of the vultures believe. So they write in comments like "I had to pay mine, you have to pay yours", and they love writing attacks on the person who is in default.
Amazing that of the student loan related yahoo groups, only 3 are not commercialized groups. That is all the others are being sponsored by a commercial bank or one of their employees who is looking to make a commission.
Even the congress, as slow as it is, still amazes me. Look at the latest push by wall street to keep student loans going. They are offering a plan to help stabilize the student loan industry, with a savings cost, they claim. But when you really look at it, you find it increases the costs and taxpayers get stuck with the bills, with wall street getting a bigger cut of the action.
And congress itself keeps saying it has a problem with defaulted student loans. Well, by the nations charter, (the Constitution) the US congress is NOT supposed to enter into commerce to compete with other commercial entities, and when it does, it is supposed to take the same risks as the others do. Yet this is not the case in reality.
The US congress has used its law making powers to give itself advantages over every other commercial business, at the cost of taxpayers and students, when it comes to the student loan industry. The result is the congress has created a second class of citizens, who are unequal in terms of financial standing. First congress is NOT taking the same risks as other commercial entities, and second, it has created a class of perpetual in debt people who have no hope of ever getting out of debt. And Third, the US congress has in effect, committed fraud with the way it has handled student loans and the industry.
Look at the industry history. Since 1970 congress has played with various laws which are of concern to students and people who get student loans. In 1992, the US congress imposed the very first "student loan reform" laws, due to the industry experiencing high default rates of nearly 1 in 4, (23 percent). Congress blamed the US department of education for failing to impose oversight on the schools at that time. Identified as a key reason for the high default rates, for profit schools (trade schools) finally had some level of oversight imposed on them. But it was too little too late.
Now with a bad economy, people are looking at not only the high default rates for the for profit (predatory trade schools) schools, but also at the higher cost of education in general.
In an article on kansaswatchdog.com, Mentions an article by the Center for College Affordability and Productivity (CCAP). The article called its findings the, “single most scandalous statistic in higher education” and said it, “Reveals many current problems and ones that will grow enormously as policymakers mindlessly push enrollment expansion amidst what must become greater public-sector resource limits.”
Here’s the kick in the pants from the report:
Approximately 60 percent of the increase in the number of college graduates from 1992 to 2008 worked in jobs that the BLS considers relatively low skilled—occupations where many participants have only high school diplomas and often even less. Only a minority of the increment in our nation’s stock of college graduates is filling jobs historically considered as requiring a bachelor’s degree or more.
So there you go.. we don't all need to be ging to college after all.
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